please, try your best to name only one

My award goes to...
CLIFF MARTINEZ

only one....that is mean ;)

ok, i will try, although i have top 3 at least

danny elfman

My "fellow" German Hans Zimmer.

Shapescapes: What I Think About Stuff-Why Hans Zimmer needs to be smacked in the face (guest article by Fotis Wiz Frikiman Kyriazidis) (http://shapescapes.blogspot.de/2013/11/what-i-think-about-stuff-why-hans.html) :D

skip to "5) Zimmer's method is a disease. And it's spreading" if you can't take the rest.

i don't hate, i just love :)

ok Steve Jablonsky

(but Junkie Xl would have been a good pick too !)

This is pretty difficult: Bruce Broughton is my most disliked one

Film composers: Hans Zimmer and the rest of RCP criminals. The gravediggers of film music.

Classical: Anton Bruckner.

"a composer whose music You dislike the most"... hmmm... I don't know, becouse I listen only to these composers, whose I like :)

Ok, Hans Zimmer & RCP Company :D

...wow...

okok, i get it. Liking Zimmer (and Co) might be dangerous (I like him)

@DaUpp & Dicey
thanks for bringing something new: Broughton and Martinez
My Elfman makes 3 others up to now.

Anybody have something different from zimmer & co? ;)

wow what an avalanche!
I... I just... kicked a tiny pebble

---------- Post added at 08:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:02 AM ----------



Shapescapes: What I Think About Stuff-Why Hans Zimmer needs to be smacked in the face (guest article by Fotis Wiz Frikiman Kyriazidis) (http://shapescapes.blogspot.de/2013/11/what-i-think-about-stuff-why-hans.html) :D

devastating:
"fanboys who feed on anything even remotely �epic� sounding"
"Hollywood-friendly"
"L.B., who makes exactly the same shit and is cheaper."
"I am told they actually had music in them!"
"while an orchestrator is looking confused"
"the puree switch"
"My guess is, they also had trouble telling the three apart."
"No wonder he works in Hollywood."
not a great review - too little inside too much dirty language

Anybody have something different from zimmer & co? ;)

Yes, I have something different:
I love Hans Zimmer's "The Thin Red Line" and "The Last Samurai".

Hummmm, I would say Steven Price...his music does not stick at all at the images...elevator music :-)

I hate the music of Michel Legrand, one exception: Summer of '42.

Yes, I have something different:
I love Hans Zimmer's "The Thin Red Line" and "The Last Samurai".

hug :D

i was not expressing myself correctly, of course, my fault, i meant:
does anybody have other composers to dislike, besides Zimmer & Co? ;)

So, i see Price and Legrand mentioned. :)

@sssnake
elevator music? really? ...i admit that makes him interesting for me.... :D i should maybe listen to some of his stuff, just top give it a try.
for me, there is far worse than elevator music ;)

I....don't have one? I like or dislike a composer based on specific scores. My fave composers can produce a crappy score, and some , like Zimmer, whose work I generally dislike can also produce some of my favorite scores.

Classical: Anton Bruckner.

Just because you don't understand it doesn't make it bad.

I....don't have one? I like or dislike a composer based on specific scores. My fave composers can produce a crappy score, and some , like Zimmer, whose work I generally dislike can also produce some of my favorite scores.

of course, but some of them did create lots of great scores, and the others mostly perpetrated chewing gum for the ears

Off the top of my head, I can't really think of a bad film score, except to the abominations that are Lars von Trier films. Usually if I see a bad movie I'll stop watching or instantly try to forget it.

this is not going to be easy to find one most disliked.

while i quantify based on quantity of scores I don't like, I can still say "it's not that I don't like it; it's more that I just don't feel anything for it - including, but not limited to: hate, love, like, dislike."
It's a completely neutral feeling.

There's scores that don't make me want to go out and buy them or pirate them, but at the same time, if they're playing, who am I turn it off?

If they make more music I don't feel anything for, it's not the same as the few scores that really make sit up and open my ears.

Now, there might be moments in a score that I don't like.
Like when some wind instruments really blare and generate this hallow sensation in your ears that make you want to smash your speakers to turn it down, but that's not the same as "I dislike this score". It's just that moment. The rest I like.

Based on the "most moments"...

I don't know. Let's go with "most moments that makes me turn down the volume"....

I'll have to get back on that. I always forget those moments right away.
When I listen to music, Foobar2000 is hidden in the taskbar, and even hidden from there as well. I need to use the triangle to open it again.
I also disable all popups that show me what track is playing so I never what's playing.


Every musical journey is a surprise, as intended.

Brian Reitzell's Hannibal scores have a few moments that are blaring like TV commercials with noise.
The rest of his Hannibal work, I love, however.

That's one example.
One small example (as it's not comprised of one entire album of any of the 4 volumes of Hannibal's OST's).

interesting attitude TheSparktank™
thought-provoking

Just recently, there was a few hollowed moments in the sessions to "Snow Piercer".

Really deep, blaring, solo moments.
I imagine it's meant to be listened to well after everyone in the neighborhood is wide awake.
And it's probably much more effective in the film.

On it's own, it's like a satanic mating call to some demon without a name.

It's literally the loudest moment in the music.
I disabled everything that normalizes audio and let it play vanilla, and it was still a deafening bellow from the gut of The Ancient Ones.

Great action cues, and the other parts that are not action-y are not worth turning off or turning down.

Just because you don't understand it doesn't make it bad.

agreed! still, he did not say he was bad. he just said he didn't like him?

@amanda:
elfman does not seem to have any score that i like :D
(like silvestri, for example, too)

Elfman is quite eccentric, especially early on. But I like percussion work, so it suits me. Likewise with Silvestri and, say, Predator. But later on, recently, neither composer has produced a score I really cared about. It's not dislike, just...meh.

---------- Post added at 12:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:28 AM ----------

Gotta remember too, the films Elfman was scoring. How eccentric Burton's films are, Elfman's scores are nearly perfectly welded to the film. But outside...nah. I like 'em. Edward Scissorhands? Common it is perfect to the film and has some beautiful quieter passages too....

Nimmer nimmer
hoer ich Zimmer
hoert ich Zimmer
gings mir schlimmer

Hmm.. Well, not a big Zimmer fan, though I really don't like Horner either.

I must admit, I'm not a big fan of the orchestrators behind Williams' work. Not really enthused with the lack of musical structure in the violins/viola/celli staves. It's almost like
they said "fuck it, we're gonna double the same notes (only 8vb) for the other instruments".

Now thee's an opinion you don't hear every day...:D

I do understand that people here could be more likely to chose a film composer! I also do recognize the amazing talents behind people such as Elfman, in the end he did the Batman animation music, which is, in my opinion one of the most memorable scores to me.

However, for my choice my top favorite composer is, Yasuharu Takanashi, anime composer from Japan. :) It may not convince many, but yeah that's me. I do listen to so many orchestrated film scores, anime etc so I can assure you that my choice is not an arbitrary one :)

For the dislike I do not know. I want to keep the good intention. Yasuharu Takanashi is my favorite composer. I do not dislike anyone to be honest, I rather believe that any composer could have his ups and downs :)

I don't love every Williams score.

He does seem redundant at times.

A lot of his actions cues always sound like it's repeating his early years.
Almost as if you were to place all the composers in a room full of eager students, he'd be the only teacher that insists on perfecting "Flight of the Bumblebee".

There was a movie that was like that.... Drumline.


I do like Tin Tin a lot. If I had to stick with his recent action cues, I'd settle on that over the Crystal Skull.

For the dislike I do not know. I want to keep the good intention. Yasuharu Takanashi is my favorite composer. I do not dislike anyone to be honest, I rather believe that any composer could have his ups and downs :)

actually i do not dislike the person (elfman for example)
i just cannot connect to the music.
like with silvestri. or giacchino.

which never means the music is bad. i just do not like it. (as in: whatever i listened to, from those composers, i did not want to go on listening to. not meaning, i know every score from them)

I am going to beat the dead horse.
many people in this forum by now already know who I dislike the most.
KAORU WADA
Why do I dislike this man so much? Easy. 20 soundtracks he makes.... they all the SAME EXACT COMPOSITIONS copy paste, not recycling. COPY PASTE.
I first got to know him when I saw Ninja Scroll and I was like "I like his style, is interesting". Then I saw 3x3 eyes "Why does this soundtrack sound so familiar to me?"
Then I saw Kishin Heidan "Why am I hearing the soundtrack of 3x3 eyes and ninja scroll???"
He continues to uses and re.use and re-re-re-re-use his own themes that is far from normal.

I know there are some composers who themselves like a composition they did, and sometimes re-arrange it and use it in somewhere else. Not Kaoru Wada.
Another thing that bursts my rage, is the soundtrack of this anime called "Harlock Saga" in which it uses the complete WAGNER Pieces of his "DER RING DES NIBELUNGEN". Guess what? Soundtrack was released in 2 cds called "DER RING DES NIBELUNGEN I" and "II" and it says in the booklet ALL COMPOSED AND ARRANGED BY KAORU WADA.
BULLSHIT YOU BITCH!!! You just arranged WAGNER's original work, you didn't composed anything you asshole.

I started to watch, last year, Tekkaman Blade, and it was one of the anime I always I wanted to see, but I could not finish it because of the now Torturing soundtrack that it is of Kaoru Wada. Nothin new, nothing!!!! Everything copy paste from silent mobious movies and 3x3 eyes.
I remember when I first saw Kishin Heidan, and I kinda liked the soundtrack to some extent. I re-watched this anime because I love it so much, and ho my god.. yes, I was feeling torture.

I don't understand how can there be a legion of fans for this guy, when his compositions are NOT GOOD, I mean... THEY ARE ALL THE SAME COPY PASTE SHIT ALWAYS.
Do these people have a very low, hyper damn low attention span???? Because it is damn obvious. I regret so much for wanting to know more about this guy, and ending up in hating his own existence, because everyone says he is a GENIUS of ORCHESTRAL MUSIC!!
I agree, he is a genius.... A GENIUS RECYCLING OVER 20 YEARS of his own stuff. FACE IT!!! The Guy is just LAZY!!!
Oh my god... I remembered now... Toshihiko Sahashi was his "student" imagine my face when I heard RAYEARTH OVA and Fatal Fury Movie soundtracks in which some cues typical of Kaoru Wada (mainly the same damn drum rhythms he uses so damn much in everywhere) where in there.
Today, Toshihiko Sahashi is one of the best orchestral composers in the world (at least for me), thank god he did not followed Wada's footsteps.

"I so want the soundtrack of mars daybreak"
"Really? Here take the soundtrack of Tekkaman Blade"
"But I said Mars Daybreak."
"Oh believe me, it's same exact musical content. Unless you want the cover with mars daybreak, that is the soundtrack of mars daybreak."

Samurai7 anime, I was watching it in TV and I was amazed "wow... the guy really made something new...", I should have shut myself, because the episode next ... "Oh for fuck sake, are you shitting me?????"

The only soundtrack that I really enjoyed and still do is the GUNNM ova ost. There was no ost released ever, and this particular work of him was something new and ORIGINAL. Yes there still some other copy paste cues in it, but not much, thank god. It's more the original cues you listen then copy-paste ones.

And this how I hate this guy so much.
Anyone wants me make a folder throughout his own soundtrack history to show how much copy pasting he does?

Hey Orie, but at least he isnt Kenji Yamamoto and Mamoru Samuragochi?

At least right?? ;6

I'll go with Danny Elfman. his music has never "clicked" for me. Another one is Giacchino. and last but not least, Tyler bates, although his "Guardians of the galaxy" score was surprisingly listenable.

As far as anime composer do... nope. none whose work I really dislike, but then again, it's probably because I've never heard their music. and then there's those I worship: Sagisu Shiro, Yokohama Seiji and Iwasaki Taku.

Hey Orie, but at least he isnt Kenji Yamamoto and Mamoru Samuragochi?

At least right?? ;6

I can't speak for Mamoru Samuragochi, as I think I only know him from one work (onimusha???). Kenji Yamamoto, if it's the bitch related to Dragon Ball Z... Well, that guy do not has my hate as much as Kaoru Wada. Kenji Yamamoto was always caught with his penis in the hole regarding Plagiarism, but nothing was ever done. Finally it took serious court charge in DBkai.
I can list so much, so much music he plagiarised since his own start of doing music. It's not that I did a research to prove the guy is an asshole. I just have a certain level of japanese musical culture in pop and anime, and in game, that I figured it immediately.
Take this for example:

Kenji Kawai / 1987: live action movie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnjJTQYv5eo

Kenji Yamamoto / 1994 : Dragon Ball Z Super Butoden 3 OST
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDpQ5fJVWNw


another example:
Hayami Shou / 1993 : "20XX ZETSU-AI～CRIME OF PASSION～ "
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDnmcc0_Ol0

Kenji Yamamoto / 1995 : Dragon Ball Z Ultimate Battle 22
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGbZx6Aqh4k


Take your own elation after hearing those.
By the way.... the booklets of both dbz games, say it is all composed and arranged by Kenji Yamamoto.



As far as anime composer do... nope. none whose work I really dislike, but then again, it's probably because I've never heard their music. and then there's those I worship: Sagisu Shiro, Yokohama Seiji and Iwasaki Taku.

Shiru Sagisu lost his spark nowadays. Since he glued himself with the London Symphony Orchestra, everything sounds the same. I did like him much more in the past, but I stopped on following his works, as they actually have been growing tiring. :/



Tyler bates, although his "Guardians of the galaxy" score was surprisingly listenable.

you and me, both. I never really cared for his music.... "GOTG" was surprisingly listenable... and at least... we had a soundtrack release. Something not very usual of Tyler.

Shiru Sagisu lost his spark nowadays. Since he glued himself with the London Symphony Orchestra, everything sounds the same. I did like him much more in the past, but I stopped on following his works, as they actually have been growing tiring. :/


Yeah, that's a bit sad. still, I consider his music for Nadia, Evangelion and Megazone 23 as some of his best works.

As for Bates, there (sadly) was a score release for the pitiful excuse for a score he did for Conan in 2011. it was shit. not as bad as his plagiarism of Goldenthal's Titus for the movie "300", but still.

Sagisu has never worked with the London Symphony Orchestra. Never been a fan of his, although some of his earlier stuff is tolerable. Modern Sagisu is divided into two sections: a) Noisy garbage, and b) Orchestral cues clearly ghost-written by Masamichi Amano.

I'll go with Danny Elfman. his music has never "clicked" for me. Another one is Giacchino.

i can share that feeling :D

Adding Silvestri, most of Goldsmith (or the golden age era)

...they just don't click ;)

like Amar does, for me at least. Or Portman, or Preisner. Or Kaczmarek or Isham or Taro Iwashiro.

Actually I was surprised how many asian composers made me click :D

Maybe "composers who do not click for me" would have been a better thread title ;)

I've never been a big Silvestri fan either.

Maybe "composers who do not click for me" would have been a better thread title ;)

haha, this would mean a die-hard thread ;)

Let me throw my 2 cents in.

I personally, cannot digest anything composed by Atticus Ross and Trent Renzor.
They win the first prize in my version of this competition.

In general I hate those scores that consist mainly of noises and electronics.
As much as I love and adore Debney's orchestral works, I simply detest his Houdini... I was hoping for a nice, orchestral score and instead we got a pile of shshsh...ivaree

Let me throw my 2 cents in.

I personally, cannot digest anything composed by Atticus Ross and Trent Renzor.
They win the first prize in my version of this competition.

In general I hate those scores that consist mainly of noises and electronics.
As much I love and adore Debney's orchestral works, I simply detest his Houdini... I was hoping for a nice, orchestral score and instead we got a pile of shshsh...ivaree

my sentiments exactly; I couldn't agree more!

I think Elfman might be it for me. Other than his Batman stuff, which was a long time ago, I have a hard time listening to his stuff. All I can think of is that Family Guy skit during one of the Star Wars spoofs where Luke used a lightsaber on him.

Laura Shigihara, her music is painfully mediocre IMO; along with the fact that she gets more credit than she deserves for her boring music.


If you want an amazing composer who is EXTREMELY versatile with her music in every shape,way, or form, look at Fumie Kumatani., she is a goddess.


Also, Jake kaufman is a bit of both, Shantae music isn't that good, Mighty Switch Force on the other hand...

There was a movie that was like that.... Drumline.
http://media.tumblr.com/f13e38a3b23ae5f552de84fdc10fe900/tumblr_inline_mkrpntKAFo1qz4rgp.jpg.

Ah Drumline... A big slap to the face to REAL percussionist everywhere!

Maybe "composers who do not click for me" would have been a better thread title ;)

Mods, make it so!

Hans Zimmer- the way he gushed "Russell......." (Crowe, that is) while accepting his Golden Globe in 2000 for Gladiator-BLECHH

Russell.......-BLECHH

instead of composers, how about singers?

I did not enjoy his parts in Les Miserables.
Hugh Jackman and Anne Hathaway stole the show.

Even that one singer who performed on stage didn't give it her all as she did on stage.
I guess she had to dumb herself down for all the novice singers?

I've been wanting to contribute to this thread for a while now, but I just can't think of one composer who's music I hate the most. I don't think I have one. Yes, there are scores I hate - but I don't know any other material by those composers due to the fact that I don't want to hear anything else done by them. Maybe I'll eventually come up with someone.

I've been wanting to contribute to this thread for a while now, but I just can't think of one composer who's music I hate the most. I don't think I have one. Yes, there are scores I hate - but I don't know any other material by those composers due to the fact that I don't want to hear anything else done by them. Maybe I'll eventually come up with someone.

just name whoever works with Uwe Boll the most.
:smrt:

Clint Eastwood, he's not even a composer to be honest. Just places his fingers on the piano and plays whatever he thinks sounds 'okay'. I've only enjoyed one of his scores, 'Mystic River', and even then, his score for that is pretty minimalistic. The only good thing about it is the theme he 'composed', which is probably his best theme.

half the time i dont know who the composer is. i just listen to the music. i download the ost, listen to the tracks, then delete those i didnt like.
just because i like 3 themes from toy story 2 doesnt mean i like randy newman.

I dislike any composer who recycles his own cues or plagiarizes cues from another composer.

I dislike any composer who recycles his own cues or plagiarizes cues from another composer.

So you dislike every composer who's ever scored more than one movie in a franchise? Or were you not counting franchises?

Franchises aside, I love hearing the little nods and references composers make in their music to other films they've scored. And also when composers reference other great film scores. For example, in his score to "The Iron Giant", Michael Kamen references John Williams' "Superman" when Hogareth shows the giant a superman comic book.

Also, one of John Powell's themes for "Ice Age 3" is an obvious (and wonderful) reference to Gustav Holst's "Jupiter". And at the very end of the end credits cue, Powell gives a fantastic nod to Williams' "Jurassic Park" main theme.

I dislike any composer who recycles his own cues or plagiarizes cues from another composer.

which ones, to name names, horner? for recycling himself?
just want to know, Zoran :)

i would mostly not know (as in able to identify) who does what you mention.

I can relate to zoran said.... Kaoru Wada. I mention him. super recycling cues...his own.
Hans Zimmer does recycles his own cues from time to time, most of them are the pirates of Caribbean cues he repeats so much in certain movies.

repetion or recycling has 2 sides, for my taste. I LIKE repetitions as long as they repeat tunes i love hearing.

only one....that is mean ;)

ok, i will try, although i have top 3 at least

danny elfman

I have to say, I agree with you there. He is the only composer that I've not warmed to yet, and I've only heard one of his scores (Meet The Robinsons). There are a couple of nice themes, but as a score it really hasn't grabbed me at all.

As DAK said, it's a tough choice, because I don't listen to scores unless I like them... so it's not really a 'fair' question.

danny elfman does click me in any way.... except sexual. xD

I have to say, I agree with you there. He is the only composer that I've not warmed to yet, and I've only heard one of his scores (Meet The Robinsons). There are a couple of nice themes, but as a score it really hasn't grabbed me at all.

As DAK said, it's a tough choice, because I don't listen to scores unless I like them... so it's not really a 'fair' question.

Sully I mean this in the nicest way possible, but I feel like you're living under a rock. How is it that of ALL his scores, ALL the Burton films he's done (all but 2, I believe) that you've heard Meet the Robinsons?

Sleepy Hollow, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Edward Scissorhands, The Spider-Man Trilogy, The Nightmare Before Christmas, Corpse Bride, Beetlejuice, Batman (both Burton films and The Animanted Series), Alice in Wonderland, Men in Black.....I mean the list goes ever on. If I had to choose 1 favorite Elfman score, that's a battle between Sleepy Hollow and Charlie and the Chocolate Factory

I actually like danny elfman i love the edward scissorhands score and the music for th flash tv series (1990)

I actually like danny elfman i love the edward scissorhands score and the music for th flash tv series (1990)

I'm actually listening to Edward Scissorhands right now for the first time outside of the film. I love it. Also just found a torrent for the expanded version off the Elfman/Burton 25th Anniversary Box.

I have that box. It is great!!

another o Elfman that I so love, and it's in my top together with Edwrad Scizor-thingies is Sleepy Hollow... I love the Tree track and the one with the crazy murdering violins.

Sully I mean this in the nicest way possible, but I feel like you're living under a rock. How is it that of ALL his scores, ALL the Burton films he's done (all but 2, I believe) that you've heard Meet the Robinsons?

I actually haven't seen any of those films you listed, and (apart from possibly watching the original Spider-Man trilogy one day), none of them particularly interest me. I have quite particular tastes in film, and from what I've seen of him, Burton isn't really my style. But if you particularly recommend one, I might find the time to watch it one day. But I'm drowning in academic work right now, so it might have to wait until September when I'm settled at uni. :)

Yes that certainly is a top elfman. But my fav has to be and always will be " the nightmare before christmas" worst being planet of the apes.

I actually haven't seen any of those films you listed, and (apart from possibly watching the original Spider-Man trilogy one day), none of them particularly interest me. I have quite particular tastes in film, and from what I've seen of him, Burton isn't really my style. But if you particularly recommend one, I might find the time to watch it one day. But I'm drowning in academic work right now, so it might have to wait until September when I'm settled at uni. :)

If I can recommend just one, it'd be my favorite Burton film - Sleepy Hollow. If there's only one man who was/is able to turn the legend into film, Burton is your man. The score is equally as good

If I can recommend just one, it'd be my favorite Burton film - Sleepy Hollow. If there's only one man who was/is able to turn the legend into film, Burton is your man. The score is equally as good

Send me a link to what you consider to be one of Elfman's best cues. I'll give it a listen.

Yes that certainly is a top elfman. But my fav has to be and always will be " the nightmare before christmas" worst being planet of the apes.

the only thing I did like in Planet of The apes was the Main titles. I think those were some of the best Main titles he ever did.

the only thing I did like in Planet of The apes was the Main titles. I think those were some of the best Main titles he ever did.

Likewise

the only thing I did like in Planet of The apes was the Main titles. I think those were some of the best Main titles he ever did.

No sorry unfortunatly i liked none of that score :(
Or the film.

At the moment i am listening to and enjiying beetlejuice!!

DAK, send me a link to what you consider to be one of Elfman's best cues. I'll give it a listen.

No sorry unfortunatly i liked none of that score :(
Or the film.

At the moment i am listening to and enjiying beetlejuice!!

ah... beettlejuice..... *main Titles*
I feel like watching the movie ^^

Excellent titles great film

Hmmm... I'm beginning to think that this thread has done a U-turn in topic.

So you dislike every composer who's ever scored more than one movie in a franchise? Or were you not counting franchises?

Franchises aside, I love hearing the little nods and references composers make in their music to other films they've scored. And also when composers reference other great film scores. For example, in his score to "The Iron Giant", Michael Kamen references John Williams' "Superman" when Hogareth shows the giant a superman comic book.

Also, one of John Powell's themes for "Ice Age 3" is an obvious (and wonderful) reference to Gustav Holst's "Jupiter". And at the very end of the end credits cue, Powell gives a fantastic nod to Williams' "Jurassic Park" main theme.

No, I did not mean franchises...that is completely acceptable to me. I meant unrelated scores by a certain composer who recycles cues from another movie...why? to me it seems like a cop-out. It's like he/she couldn't be bothered to come up with something new for a new film.

Sadly a couple of my favorite composers have done this on more the one occasion, Jerry Goldsmith & James Horner and Danny Elfman. Although I have several Hans Zimmer scores I have to agree with most of you that he is very predictable and is guilty of recycling his own cues. (for non-franchise films)

Can you give me any examples? Because apart from the odd motif and stylistic usage of certain orchestral instruments, I can't actually think of any examples.

I can think of a couple of examples where something in a cue reminds me of another score by the same composer, but that's really more to do with style than recycling.

which ones, to name names, horner? for recycling himself?
just want to know, Zoran :)

i would mostly not know (as in able to identify) who does what you mention.

Yep Horner is one that comes to mind. The end title from Alien by Goldsmith where Ripley is in the stasis tube was...ahem...borrowed for Horner's score for Clear and Present Danger. The scene he used the cue was where Jack Ryan was in the control room at CIA headquarters watching a tactical assault.


Can you give me any examples? Because apart from the odd motif and stylistic usage of certain orchestral instruments, I can't actually think of any examples.

I can think of a couple of examples where something in a cue reminds me of another score by the same composer, but that's really more to do with style than recycling.

LOL I was typing this example why you were typing your response.

So you're saying that Goldsmith's cue from Alien was used in a film scored by Horner? Did Horner just use Goldsmith's cue or did he use themes from it?

From my recollection he used the whole cue for that scene. When I first heard it I thought I had heard it before and a few days later I saw Alien again and identified it.

I'd say I'm in the same category as few other posters in that I don't really have a composer I dread hearing anything from. I've never really developed any refined musical tastes. Doesn't matter if it's droning electronica or bombastic orchestral cues I almost always find something to like about a score. Of course I haven't really gotten into music for a long as most here so that may change in time. I also have an obsession of not deleting anything from a score even if I hate it..........the completionist syndrome =/

DAK, send me a link to what you consider to be one of Elfman's best cues. I'll give it a listen.

Hey Sully, I know I'm not DAK ;) but you should definately listen to the Edward Scissorhands score (particularly these cues; "Introduction", "Storytime" and "The Grand Finale").

Also, you should give these a listen; Spider-Man 2 ("Main Titles" and "Declared Love"), Spider-Man ("Costume Montage / Web Practice"), Real Steel ("Final Round").

And, let's not forget Batman (1989), which also inspired the music for Batman: The Animated Series :D


You can listen to them here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1v7nead9b4u5ic5/AAAzfdC4TEqsqwqinDczKt2Ma?dl=0

scissorhands is definetely one of elfmans best, specially for storytime, ice dance, and death! the rest i didnt give two shits about.

Stephen Price just recycled some of this Gravity score into Fury.

You can hear it around 48min area when zee Germans open fire.
You can hear the spanning score that intensifies, like you're spinning in a circle. Spinning in a circle, out of control.
Out of control, in space.

That's what I hear. The exact same sound structure as Gravity.
woops. :laugh:

So you're saying that Goldsmith's cue from Alien was used in a film scored by Horner? Did Horner just use Goldsmith's cue or did he use themes from it?

what's the difference? both are terrible

I see no mention of Thomas Newman in here. I love his music, but he repeats himself just as much as Zimmer and Horner

Let's not forget about Randy Newman.

Randy Newman Singing what he sees From Family guy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWpIMFEe2ds)

Mad TV: Randy Newman sings Star Wars (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SK-p3mtyhRc)

Family Guy Randy Newman (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx0L3pQ9xB4)

South Park Randy Newman (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuSeJPXmAOs)

Okay, youtube sucks.

Tbh, all this repeating discussion is kinda pointless. If a composer wants to quote themselves, they are perfectly entitled to (especially Tom Newman). It's their own work. Rarely if ever does a composer quote himself so much to the extent of being lazy and not writing an original score. And if composers want to quote others' work, I really don't mind that much. It's not that big of a deal to me. But meh. That's just my opinion.

I know I will get SO much hate for this but... Sakimoto Hitoshi. I think his music is somehow very bland and lacks the "oomph" many other composers have. I know he is hailed one of the best composers ever but my ears just don't like him. I tend to skip almost all his stuff. Weird.

Hey Sully, I know I'm not DAK ;) but you should definately listen to the Edward Scissorhands score (particularly these cues; "Introduction", "Storytime" and "The Grand Finale").

Also, you should give these a listen; Spider-Man 2 ("Main Titles" and "Declared Love"), Spider-Man ("Costume Montage / Web Practice"), Real Steel ("Final Round").

And, let's not forget Batman (1989), which also inspired the music for Batman: The Animated Series :D


You can listen to them here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1v7nead9b4u5ic5/AAAzfdC4TEqsqwqinDczKt2Ma?dl=0

Hey Tintacle! Nice to see you around again! Been missing your awesome artwork...

Thanks for the dropbox link - I'll definitely give them a listen soon. :)

I know I will get SO much hate for this but... Sakimoto Hitoshi. I think his music is somehow very bland and lacks the "oomph" many other composers have. I know he is hailed one of the best composers ever but my ears just don't like him. I tend to skip almost all his stuff. Weird.

really?
at some point, maybe in is start of career, I did not like him, and felt his stuff was bland. But I went hearing other stuff of him, just because it happened, and He is one of composers I like. Maybe not in top favorite, no, but I do like his stuff. I admit, I don't follow his works, but what I listened , it was good.

really?
at some point, maybe in is start of career, I did not like him, and felt his stuff was bland. But I went hearing other stuff of him, just because it happened, and He is one of composers I like. Maybe not in top favorite, no, but I do like his stuff. I admit, I don't follow his works, but what I listened , it was good.

Totally agree !

I dislike John Williams... I'm sorry.. .I just can;t get into his music as much... I've listened to several records and none of them stuck with me. :/

I think being sorry for not liking a certain composer that all world enjoys is not fair. I mean, John Williams might click some people according to their own style and how the music itself is digested in someone's mind or heart. I like John Williams, in some things... you don't like. No problem in that. I am a very enthusiast in Asian horror mood soundtracks, yet, I do know some people might not really be appealed to it. But I am the one who knows what it feels like to listen those soundtracks, and I like the feeling, others might not.
Though..... there are really bad composers that deserve epic face smack, because they are famous, for no good reason. But that is going beyond the topic.
As I wanted to say, some composers to enter better someone's mind or heart, better then others.

If your definition of "composer" is loose enough to include Ramin Djawadi, him.


I dislike John Williams... I'm sorry.. .I just can;t get into his music as much... I've listened to several records and none of them stuck with me. :/

What is wrong with you?

What is wrong is just that John Williams does not "strike" him. Not really his fault.

If your definition of "composer" is loose enough to include Ramin Djawadi, him.

Iron Man
Pacific Rim
Game of Thrones

...seriouslyy?!

So you're saying that Goldsmith's cue from Alien was used in a film scored by Horner? Did Horner just use Goldsmith's cue or did he use themes from it?


From my recollection he used the whole cue for that scene. When I first heard it I thought I had heard it before and a few days later I saw Alien again and identified it.

Except you're mistaking one critical thing:

Horner did not use cues from Alien, cues from Alien ("Sleepy Alien" and "Parker's Death") were tracked in by the film's editors. Horner had nothing to do with it. Typically, NO composer does (except John Ottman, who is himself a film editor in addition to being a composer)

The same editors who completely cut up, re-arranged, tracked, shortened and replaced Horner's score in the film. Editors on Alien did the same to Goldsmith's score.

It's those same editors who replaced Horner's "Combat Drop" with a piece of library music.

I mention this because to blame the composer for such things, which you are both doing, is factually incorrect and very shortsighted.

As for Clear and Present Danger, Horner and Goldsmith turned to a classical piece for inspiration. If most people who like to bash actually took the time to listen to composers speak for themselves about these things, they would know that 'recycling' cues and quoting others is exactly their intention and they don't really care about the criticism of those choices. They do it deliberately, intentionally, noticeably, and continue to do so where it works for them.

In other words, if someone says "I hear so much Prokofiev in Horner's music", the first person who would agree with you, is Horner himself. There's plenty of material around (Horner and collaborators of his) where this is discussed out there.



---------- Post added at 05:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:55 AM ----------



What is wrong with you?

The same thing that is wrong with me.

I have no connection to Williams whatsoever. I could never deny his effectiveness and his talent, same with Goldsmith, but their music just isn't for me for the most part.

Except you're mistaking one critical thing:

Horner did not use cues from Alien, cues from Alien ("Sleepy Alien" and "Parker's Death") were tracked in by the film's editors. Horner had nothing to do with it. Typically, NO composer does (except John Ottman, who is himself a film editor in addition to being a composer)

The same editors who completely cut up, re-arranged, tracked, shortened and replaced Horner's score in the film. Editors on Alien did the same to Goldsmith's score.

It's those same editors who replaced Horner's "Combat Drop" with a piece of library music.

I mention this because to blame the composer for such things, which you are both doing, is factually incorrect and very shortsighted.

As for Clear and Present Danger, Horner and Goldsmith turned to a classical piece for inspiration. If most people who like to bash actually took the time to listen to composers speak for themselves about these things, they would know that 'recycling' cues and quoting others is exactly their intention and they don't really care about the criticism of those choices. They do it deliberately, intentionally, noticeably, and continue to do so where it works for them.

In other words, if someone says "I hear so much Prokofiev in Horner's music", the first person who would agree with you, is Horner himself. There's plenty of material around (Horner and collaborators of his) where this is discussed out there.



---------- Post added at 05:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:55 AM ----------



The same thing that is wrong with me.

I have no connection to Williams whatsoever. I could never deny his effectiveness and his talent, same with Goldsmith, but their music just isn't for me for the most part.

Thanks for the clarification, JHFan. I wasn't accusing anyone of anything (especially not Horner!). I just had no idea of the situation with Alien, etc.

I completely agree with you. Recycling and quoting is intentional, and I think it's a nice, clever way to acknowledge other composers' work.

Iron Man
Pacific Rim
Game of Thrones

...seriouslyy?!

honestly, I am not into Ramin Djwadi too. :/
Pacific Rim released soundtrack is awful. I don't like how it was made. But It plays well in the movie. The soundtrack itself, is awfully bad produced.

honestly, I am not into Ramin Djwadi too. :/

Guess you're both entitled to your (bizarre) opinions! :)


Pacific Rim released soundtrack is awful. I don't like how it was made. But It plays well in the movie. The soundtrack itself, is awfully bad produced.

How do you mean "how it was made" and "awfully bad produced"?

this issue of opinion is not opinion at all. I don't have an opinion on Ramin at all. I am just no into him. I first heard him was in Prison Break and I liked it, after that.... nothing appeals to me. It just doesn't.
And it's not bizarre. teh fact that you like Ramin more then others, does not mean others have a bizarre opinion. That would be offensive to some people (not me though), as far as I know, you are bizarre for liking Ramin, because I am not into him. You are almost judging people by their choices, and that is pretty unpolite.
Just saying.

bad produced, the Cd production. I swear to you, the soundtrack in CD release was so annoying with all those montages that I never finished the album at all. I just couldn't like it at all.
I also produce music, so I do know what I mean in that field.... because of that, I ended up hating the soundtrack, till I saw the movie. The soundtrack is very good IN THE MOVIE. If it was better produced with some other hands, maybe I would like the soundtrack, but, I can only listen the soundtrack good watching the movie. Not the Cd itself.

this issue of opinion is not opinion at all. I don't have an opinion on Ramin at all. I am just no into him. I first heard him was in Prison Break and I liked it, after that.... nothing appeals to me. It just doesn't.
And it's not bizarre. teh fact that you like Ramin more then others, does not mean others have a bizarre opinion. That would be offensive to some people (not me though), as far as I know, you are bizarre for liking Ramin, because I am not into him. You are almost judging people by their choices, and that is pretty unpolite.
Just saying.

Glad you're not offended, it certainly wasn't meant in that way. That's why I used an exclamation mark and a smiley face. It was tongue-in-cheek. Perhaps I should have said 'taste' not opinion.


bad produced, the Cd production. I swear to you, the soundtrack in CD release was so annoying with all those montages that I never finished the album at all. I just couldn't like it at all.
I also produce music, so I do know what I mean in that field.... because of that, I ended up hating the soundtrack, till I saw the movie. The soundtrack is very good IN THE MOVIE. If it was better produced with some other hands, maybe I would like the soundtrack, but, I can only listen the soundtrack good watching the movie. Not the Cd itself.

I had no idea it was full of montages. And I guess it's another case of different tastes. Glad you appreciate the score in the film though. :)

While I love most of Ramin Djawadi's scores, I HATE HIS MUSIC FROM GAME OF THRONES :| I feel it really did a massive injustice to the show. I just can't figure out a way to enjoy it...

While I love most of Ramin Djawadi's scores, I HATE HIS MUSIC FROM GAME OF THRONES :| I feel it really did a massive injustice to the show. I just can't figure out a way to enjoy it...

Oh really? All I know is the main theme, and I like that.

My "fellow" German Hans Zimmer.

Shapescapes: What I Think About Stuff-Why Hans Zimmer needs to be smacked in the face (guest article by Fotis Wiz Frikiman Kyriazidis) (http://shapescapes.blogspot.de/2013/11/what-i-think-about-stuff-why-hans.html) :D

skip to "5) Zimmer's method is a disease. And it's spreading" if you can't take the rest.

GREAT ARTICLE:


What I Think About Stuff-Why Hans Zimmer needs to be smacked in the face (guest article by Fotis Wiz Frikiman Kyriazidis)


Greetings, Shapescapers! In this post, I'm going to rant about today's most overrated film composer, the one and only Hans “BWOOOMMM” Zimmer.


This guy has become a celebrity among composers, having achieved a god-like status by fanboys who feed on anything even remotely “epic” sounding. I'm about to discuss some of the uglier truths about his more recent output and focus on the drivel that he has churned out for the Christopher Nolan films, which (in a just and caring Universe) should have destroyed his career instead of raising his popularity.




Kostas: Might as well mention that Nolan’s films are bound to do that, anytime soon. Dude likes to put his dick in everybody’s Cheerios and it’s only a matter of time before DC fanboys get tired of his shitty output and denounce him. Then again, this is NOT a just and caring Universe.


1) He's generic as hell.


There's having your trademark sound, and then there's doing the same score for every movie. Zimmer has had his fair share of success during the '90s, thanks to his scores for The Rock and Broken Arrow whose melodies, motifs and compositional style proved to be so Hollywood-friendly that he decided to copy them into every single soundtrack that he has made since.

One could draw endless connections among his OST work. You will find tons of arguments online about how “this track from Gladiator sounds exactly like that track from Pirates of the Caribbean”. I'm not going to go into detail on this, because you can just put on any track from Black Hawk Down and it will sound like any other track from Pearl Harbor. Heard one, heard them all. And when a film or game company can't afford Hans, they'll hire his buddy Lorne Balfe, who makes exactly the same shit and is cheaper.


Kostas: Don’t forget the Batman movies and Man Of Steel! I am told they actually had music in them!

2) His production techniques are terrible.


Thanks his plethora of new fans, Hans has decided to make his music more accessible and enjoyable to a younger audience, sacrificing the orchestral performances in favor of maximizing DAT PHAT ULTRA-EPIC BASS. BWOOOOOM IN YOUR FACE, MOTHERFUCKER.


His dense sound design, which makes every horn and violin note sound grandiose and heavy, renders his work impossible to listen to. The soundtrack to Man of Steel demonstrates this perfectly. Every track is punctuated by a low, booming noise. Ever since he got his hands on digital composing toys, he often constructs his tracks with fake, electronically-generated orchestral sounds. Remember, this guy gets paid more than composers who actually use an orchestra.

Now, where's that 'Generate Orchestra' button? Oh, there it is.”





And even when he does hire actual musicians, their performances are poorly mixed. The low frequencies are turned up to 11 and the treble is lowered (Kostas: in non-music nerd, this means that he puts every sound in the blender and flicks the puree switch). The listener is unable to differentiate the human-played instrument performances from the synththesized ones. Man of Steel features a “drum orchestra” (hooray for media-whoring!), which consists of many talented percussionists, including Jason Bonham, the son of Led Zeppelin's drummer.


Here's a track that, hilariously, packs every single Zimmer clich� in the last five years in just nine minutes. Ladies and gents, TERRAFORMING:

Breakdown:


0:00-2:26 – Generic Zimmer battle anthem, with melodies that go nowhere.
2:27-3:07 – Ear-splitting noise.
3:20-3:32 – My, my, we sure have some cool drummers.
3:34-3:36 – Noise AND drummers!
5:13 – Remember Batman's two-note theme? Dah-DUNNNN? Let's give Supes a ONE-note theme! DUNNNNN-DUNNNNN!!!
5:47-6:35 – Because brooding Gotham ambience also works for Metropolis.
6:46 – Foghorn from Hell! BRAMMMMMMPPPFFFF.
7:04 – Wait, didn't we hear this melody back in 1:50 with different percussion?
8:10 – Why are even quiet sections so damn bass-y?
9:04 – OH GOD I’M TRAPPED IN A JET TURBINE!


My, my, I wonder what Superman himself would make of this?


Even his few cool musical ideas (IF they are his to begin with) suffer from this. Inception's score proved to be a several-trick-pony. You've probably already heard about the �dith Piaf fiasco. That was neat. Plus, Johnny Marr (of The Smiths fame) played some great guitar parts, which made “Dream is Collapsing” and “Time” two of Zimmer's best and most memorable works to date. Still, when it's time for Zimmer's musical capability to rear its ugly head, Marr's guitar is buried under all this compositional warfare. Notice how the synth bass in the beginning of “Dream is Collapsing” is almost trying to choke the guitar.

3) He has a big, BIG mouth.


As the big celebrity that he is, Zimmy boy loves doing interviews. He talks. Like, a lot. I will spare you the headache of interview videos on YouTube (most of which last ninety hours each), as all you need to know is that he spends more time advertising his works than actually working in the studio.


He loves to brag about the musicians and instruments he brings into each of his masterpieces. “It has an Artot-Alard Stradivarius violin!”, he boasts on the Man of Steel interviews. “We've got Johnny Marr of The Smiths!”, he exclaimed about Inception's score. He also promises more than he actually delivers, like “a closure to the Batman theme” for the Rises score, which never happened. Christian Clemmensen of Filmtracks (who has written some of the most scathing reviews of Zimmer's music ever, by the way) once wrote: “This composer needs to shut his yap.” I couldn't have said this better.


4) He doesn't even write his own scores.


Okay, I'm exaggerating about this part. Of course he writes his own scores; after all, he's copy-pasting the same stuff he's been doing for the past 20 years. However, his company, Remote Control Productions, has been responsible for hiring various composers, all of which are mentored by Zimmer about how to make clich�d movie scores that nobody will remember after leaving the theater (or music for Call of Duty games, which more or less falls into the same category). These composers, mostly young Zimmer wannabes, have been guilty of ghostwriting for Zimmer. After all, ol' Hans never had classical training, and got into this business thanks to his immense fanboyism. Sound familiar?


So, like Kevin Smith, Hans always has to rely on others in order to sustain his career. The most offending example of this is the horrible mess the scores for The Dark Knight trilogy were. Zimmer and his collaborator on the first two films, James Newton Howard, two composers with radically different styles (in that Howard actually knows a thing or two about music), created themes wildly inconsistent with each other, Zimmer making a simple two-note theme for Batman (daaaaaah-DUNNNN!!!) and Howard doing a complex composition for Harvey Dent.


Remember that song in the movie? Me neither, as most of Howard's contributions were either chopped up or kept in the background over all the Zimmer-produced noise. Unfortunately, after the studio hired Zimmer for Inception, Howard decided to depart from The Dark Knight Rises, saying that the chemistry between Nolan and Zimmer was so good that he didn't want to be a “third wheel”.


Therefore, the few interesting moments in the first two scores (which Howard composed on his own, by the way) were thrown out of the window and Zimmer decided to put his army of ghostwriters into use for the third film (including Game of Thrones' Ramin Djawadi), adding their own ideas to the same tracks he composed for the previous two films. Seriously. apart from the choir by Internet fans for Bane's “deshi deshi basara” theme (another gimmick!), most of the Rises music was recycled from Batman Begins and The Dark Knight.





The scores for all three films were rejected from the Academy because of the additional composers. My guess is, they also had trouble telling the three apart.


5) Zimmer's method is a disease. And it's spreading.


Ever since he stumbled into success, studios have been pushing composers to copy “the Zimmer sound”, most notably Anthony Gonzalez of M83, who was forced to go this route when he co-scored that sci-fi movie with Tom Cruise (I think it was called War of the Minority Oblivions). There are tons of soundtracks imitating the most annoying of Zimmerisms, including the foghorn from Hell, the intense string arrangements that don't go anywhere, and, of course, the irritating female singer who goes all Lisa Gerrard on your ass lamenting the death of a soldier or a nation or some shit like that.


Zimmer is guilty of this himself, of course. Apart from his aforementioned company Ghostwriters, Inc., he has produced scores for other composers, steering them in the directions he is comfortable with; one such example is the Zimmer-approved Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen soundtrack by Steve Jablonsky, which sounds like every Zimmer soundtrack ever, with extra added Linkin Park flavor to boot.

I'm so glad Nick Arundel and Ron Fish created excellent themes for the first two Batman: Arkham games, even when they were apparently pushed by Warner Bros. to create more Zimmery stuff for Arkham City; Arundel built upon the “Nolan-loves-dark-and-gritty” monotonous synths and two-note motifs and created a much better theme for City than Zimmer could have ever dreamed of.

So, there you have it. Hans Zimmer sucks, and even when he doesn't, there's no way to tell if he or some poor ghost composer is responsible for it. No wonder he works in Hollywood.

I'm not even bothering to read that. I don't have the time, energy, or willpower. Zimmer is an incredibly gifted, talented musician and we are so very blessed to have him in our musical landscape. So many of his scores have taken me through moments in my life that almost nothing else could have. I don't care if he uses the same techniques and patterns of composing in his works. We all do that kind of thing in various ways in life. Authors do it, artists do it, and classical composers do it, yet nobody bashes them for it. So stop trying to be intelligent and just take his music for what it is - music. And fantastic, moving, deep, incredible music at that.

Just listen to this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24Lm4ue3Fbc) and then tell me Zimmer needs to be smacked in the face.

I'm not even bothering to read that. I don't have the time, energy, or willpower. Zimmer is an incredibly gifted, talented musician and we are so very blessed to have him in our musical landscape. So many of his scores have taken me through moments in my life that almost nothing else could have. I don't care if he uses the same techniques and patterns of composing in his works. We all do that kind of thing in various ways in life. Authors do it, artists do it, and classical composers do it, yet nobody bashes them for it. So stop trying to be intelligent and just take his music for what it is - music. And fantastic, moving, deep, incredible music at that.

Just listen to this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24Lm4ue3Fbc) and then tell me Zimmer needs to be smacked in the face.

The article was a bit over-the-top: Zimmer has a tremendous melodic gift, but in my opinion, his ability to expand on that is curbed by his lack of classical training. Ramin Djawadi, though, there is no defending. Any middle schooler with his first MIDI keyboard could match Djawadi's composing ability.

I'm not even bothering to read that. I don't have the time, energy, or willpower. Zimmer is an incredibly gifted, talented musician and we are so very blessed to have him in our musical landscape. So many of his scores have taken me through moments in my life that almost nothing else could have. I don't care if he uses the same techniques and patterns of composing in his works. We all do that kind of thing in various ways in life. Authors do it, artists do it, and classical composers do it, yet nobody bashes them for it. So stop trying to be intelligent and just take his music for what it is - music. And fantastic, moving, deep, incredible music at that.

Just listen to this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24Lm4ue3Fbc) and then tell me Zimmer needs to be smacked in the face.

http://i.imgur.com/x7F5erx.gif

And here I thought the thread was about like and dislike, about what clicks for and what does not, and NOT about who is good or bad in whoevers opinion....

I hate music of Leonard Rosenman. It's just too bland, too cacophonic and non-melodic. Additionally, even his scores in 90's always sounds so archival, out of date, and out of place. Just listen to Robocop 2 or Star Trek IV, the music just doesn't fit the movies in slightest.

I hate music of Leonard Rosenman. It's just too bland, too cacophonic and non-melodic. Additionally, even his scores in 90's always sounds so archival, out of date, and out of place. Just listen to Robocop 2 or Star Trek IV, the music just doesn't fit the movies in slightest.

The only Rosenman score I have is his LOTR. Which I love, as it's just plain crazy, like the film. And I love that. But I agree with you - sometimes it gets a bit cacophonous.

I hate music of Leonard Rosenman. It's just too bland, too cacophonic and non-melodic. .

ohhh, thx for the hint, he will not show in my to-play-list for a while, for non-melodic for me is no-go.
i like it melodic and harmonic.

ohhh, thx for the hint, he will not show in my to-play-list for a while, for non-melodic for me is no-go.
i like it melodic and harmonic.

Please, don't just take someone's word that he's awful and never listen to him. Try and see for yourself. Some of his stuff is really great. Do him a favour and listen to this piece from his score to Bakshi's LOTR: Theme from The Lord of the Rings (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcOet2EIIyA)
Listen to the whole track, it just gets better and better, and although it's not very Tolkein-ish (like Howard Shore or Stephen Oliver) it's still a fantastic piece of music. Let me know what you think of it. :)

Speaking generally, all the Lord of the Rings movies bring out the worst of every composer

Please, don't just take someone's word that he's awful and never listen to him. Try and see for yourself. Some of his stuff is really great. Do him a favour and listen to this piece from his score to Bakshi's LOTR: Theme from The Lord of the Rings (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcOet2EIIyA)
Listen to the whole track, it just gets better and better, and although it's not very Tolkein-ish (like Howard Shore or Stephen Oliver) it's still a fantastic piece of music. Let me know what you think of it. :)

I didn't say that I hate everything. For example, I love the main theme of Robocop 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-RlYcc_Qe0), because it's a great fun to listen to... The first 20 seconds he tries to imitate Poledouris' robust action, but then he completely ditches it, and use this upbeat music and female choir from 1960's chanting "Robocooop", which is wildly inappropriate for the movie. I bet he would be a great golden era composer for the adventure genre, but he composed well throughout 80's and 90's, where his music is extremely dated.

I've played your LOTR cue and I hear that there is a whole passage lifted from it and used in Star Trek IV. Wow, just wow.

Speaking generally, all the Lord of the Rings movies bring out the worst of every composer

That literally makes no sense. Apart from Rosenman's crazy score to Bakshi's crazy animation, I'd be interested to know of any examples of your statement. I personally love Shore's LOTR and I couldn't live without Stephen Oliver's score to the 1978 BBC Radio 4 dramatisation.

@james
there just is so MUCH to listen to, actually it helps to be able to strike things off the list ;)
BUT
i agree with you nevertheless, I have to.

@sorei Let me know what you think. :)

I didn't say that I hate everything. For example, I love the main theme of Robocop 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-RlYcc_Qe0), because it's a great fun to listen to... The first 20 seconds he tries to imitate Poledouris' robust action, but then he completely ditches it, and use this upbeat music and female choir from 1960's chanting "Robocooop", which is wildly inappropriate for the movie. I bet he would be a great golden era composer for the adventure genre, but he composed well throughout 80's and 90's, where his music is extremely dated.

I've played your LOTR cue and I hear that there is a whole passage lifted from it and used in Star Trek IV. Wow, just wow.

Just listened to Robocop 2 - so very Rosenman, lol. He is very distinctive. I quite liked it, but the style didn't seem very appropriate to what I know the film to be like. You're certainly right about the female choir! Totally inappropriate. He uses a male choir chanting "Moooordoooorrr" in his LOTR score, as well as "Namnesor Dranoel" (his own name spelt backwards). Talk about weird. But it works in Bakshi's LORT because the film is so utterly zany anyway.

I'd love to hear the Star Trek IV passage you mention. Is it on YouTube?

I don't think there are any composers that I've heard who I dislike. However, if I had to choose the one I liked the least, I'd probably be saying Marco Beltrami, or post-1990s/pre-2014 Hans Zimmer.

I don't think there are any composers that I've heard who I dislike. However, if I had to choose the one I liked the least, I'd probably be saying Marco Beltrami, or post-1990s/pre-2014 Hans Zimmer.

You mean Hans Zimmer film scores between 1990-2014? That includes (among many, many others):

The Lion King
Prince of Egypt
Gladiator
Pearl Harbor
Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron (my favourite film score of all time)
All Pirates of the Caribbean movies
The Madagascar movies
The Dark Knight trilogy
Kung Fu Panda 1+2
Sherlock Holmes 1+2
Inception
Megamind
Rango
Rush
Man of Steel
The Lone Ranger
12 Years A Slave
etc.
etc.
etc.

REALLY??

Glad The Truly Amazing Spider-Man 2 isn't on that list. ;)

@sorei Let me know what you think. :)

listened to the youtube link, now: it is not bad. (I expected worse *lol*)
it is not really MINE though, either...

Not a fan of Dee-Juh-Whatever.. um, I mean Djawadi..

Not a fan of Dee-Juh-Whatever.. um, I mean Djawadi..

Don't think you pronounce the 'D'.

You mean Hans Zimmer film scores between 1990-2014? That includes (among many, many others):

The Lion King
Prince of Egypt
Gladiator
Pearl Harbor
Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron (my favourite film score of all time)
All Pirates of the Caribbean movies
The Madagascar movies
The Dark Knight trilogy
Kung Fu Panda 1+2
Sherlock Holmes 1+2
Inception
Megamind
Rango
Rush
Man of Steel
The Lone Ranger
12 Years A Slave
etc.
etc.
etc.

REALLY??

Glad The Truly Amazing Spider-Man 2 isn't on that list. ;)

Post-1990s. As in after the 1900s, which span 10 years. So, 2000-2013.

Post-1990s. As in after the 1900s, which span 10 years. So, 2000-2013.

Ok, but that still leaves:

Gladiator
Pearl Harbor
Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron (my favourite film score of all time)
All Pirates of the Caribbean movies
The Madagascar movies
The Dark Knight trilogy
Kung Fu Panda 1+2
Sherlock Holmes 1+2
Inception
Megamind
Rango
Rush
Man of Steel
The Lone Ranger
12 Years A Slave

;)

Pretty much, yep. I didn't really like many of those. The Dark Knight scores are okay but by far not his best efforts.

Pretty much, yep. I didn't really like many of those. The Dark Knight scores are okay but by far not his best efforts.

Wow.

Good for you for standing out and being willing to take the risk of having your head chopped off. :)

Wow.

Good for you for standing out and being willing to take the risk of having your head chopped off. :)

Honesty on this subject suits me best. To each their own opinion, as well.

For those ready to take the shot, it's not like I said I hate all of Zimmer's work lol - as many people on here should know one of my favourite scores ever is one of his, and I quite liked TASM2 and Intersteller (even though TASM2 takes me out of my comfort zone with the dubstep elements). I just think Zimmer spent a lot of time doing stuff that was too synthetic for my liking and he's now finding his way back to doing something different again. Perhaps it's because the first film composer I heard was John Williams, and entering the soundtrack genre through him seems to set a very high bar.

Horner, for repeating himself.

Horner, for repeating himself.

I don't like that argument. But even if he does repeat himself, I don't frickin' care! It's Horner, for crying out loud!! :D

I agree. Of what I know off the top of my head, he did Star Trek 2 and Avatar and Amazing Spider-Man. Each one is different. Okay, TASM has some similar writing to Avatar, but it is overall a different score for a different film in a different genre.

I agree. Of what I know off the top of my head, he did Star Trek 2 and Avatar and Amazing Spider-Man. Each one is different. Okay, TASM has some similar writing to Avatar, but it is overall a different score for a different film in a different genre.

Yes! And Apollo 13, Balto, and The Amazing Spider-Man are all so different, yet they do have the occasional similarities in harmonic structure and instrumentation. But that's usual for any composer!

I can't get over how much I love his ASM score. It's just so amazing! I do not get all the negative reviews. What is there not to like about it??

You know, it's not that I don't like Horner or his music, really - he just came to my mind first once I read the question. And to me, he is a bit repeatable: you can hear the exact same trumpet fragment in Enemy at the Gates, Avatar and Troy (and possibly many more of his scores). Completely different movies, completely different times, yet very much the same recycled music. If that's not repeating himself, I don't know what is.

You know, it's not that I don't like Horner or his music, really - he just came to my mind first once I read the question. And to me, he is a bit repeatable: you can hear the exact same trumpet fragment in Enemy at the Gates, Avatar and Troy (and possibly many more of his scores). Completely different movies, completely different times, yet very much the same recycled music. If that's not repeating himself, I don't know what is.

You're so right, and I'm overly sick of people defending the constant plagiarism on the grounds of, "who cares?! it's Horner" as if that is supposed to rid any question or argument thereof.



This passage^ has got to be one of Horner's most overly used and rehashed "melodic expressions" ad nauseum. Braveheart, Titanic, Apollo 13, Deep Impact..and more is where you'll find/hear this. That crashing piano sound (nothing more than palm clusters from the highest register to the lowest) and glissandi in the chimes are another phrasing I'm tired of too.

I really don't see the problem with it myself. So what if it's a 'repeat' of a small piano or trumpet fragment? It's the same composer, so if that's a little signature, what's wrong with that? I think that piano fill appears in ASM too. :)

I love the late John Barry and he repeats himself throughout his distinguished career and to be honest it never bothered me.

I feel like something is being ignored here. The fact that most, if not every design over the last couple of decades be it in music, film, product design, architecture, etc. is more or less a rehash/remix/mash-up/rework/reinterpretation from something in the past. Originality in our modern time is not only extremely rare but also, hasn't always been received ideally by the audience.

Now, this may be because as a species, we not only learn from our predecessors but also build upon that using it as either foundations or inspirations. Collectively, we continue to improve ourselves as time passes because we execute a trial and error procedure on everything we produce and based on it's reception we decide whether to expand on that or abandon that approach. What happens as a result is that, creativity becomes directed, guided by criticism. There's a reason why some fads continue to live on or why in music for example, we continue using selective production methods and scoff at the mention of unappreciated or unpopular ones.

Now, what happens as a result to the risk-takers, the crazies? It depends on the answers to a few questions. First, the answer to whether they get the opportunity to showcase their design, because this becomes an issue when steadily there's a rising trend of investors avoiding taking chances on an untested approach. Second, the answer to whether they actually complete or finish their approach or abandon for fear of negative critique and subsequent shame or embarrassment on failure which adds to the destruction of their self-confidence resulting in sometimes, the switch to the conventional techniques. Third and possibly the most important, about their commitment. Are they really committed wholly, heart and soul, to their approach or do they think they are just because their faith has yet to be tested?

In this case, some innovative composers might be condemned or scoffed at not because they are bad, but because they diverge from the norm. Their rebellion becomes their undoing. Most people who are like this are not only passionate about their work(as they need to be to believe enough to go against the current) but are also emotionally sensitive. Criticism matters to them which sometimes causes them to change their tunes, metaphorically, in their next outing.

On the other end of the spectrum lies another group of people which are tremendously larger in number by comparison. This group tends to take things that are already in existence, anywhere from a complete form to a rough but promising concept and well-received by the people in its time and adapts it to their requirements. This may mean to alter it or transform it or change certain aspects of it to fit or add something to it. These actions may done not only to conform it to the requirements of the time, or the target audience or objective the artist wishes to achieve but also to disguise it in a way that it cannot be traced back to it's origins. This much is evident in the world of art as it stands today.

All that is left is to identify the 'theft'. Someone who listens to stuff from the past and not only the mainstream, but in some cases the obscure, the things most only encounter by chance if ever they do.

Sometimes, an artist may copy or reuse their own work, as is the issue here. Now this may mostly be laziness on their part or a fixation with an approach of theirs and inertia associated with it, but it may also be pride. Pride in the fact the they could use it any which way and it would still work. Pride in the fact that they themselves cannot produce anything that supersedes the work in the past.

So, the final question is, is this good or bad. Is the repetition better, safer or is taking the unorthodox route better? Again, it depends. It depends on the audience's reception to the original to begin with and whether the updated version improves on it or just leeches on to the original's good qualities and reputation. It depends on the final product as a whole, unbiased by the sources behind the curtains, but just that thing in respect to the time, in case of complimentary art forms like this one, the context (does it contribute to the film or is it just music that could stand alone?). Is one way better than the other, or does it depend not only on the audience as a unit but individual members of the audience. Good music like most other things has a unique impact on every single person who hears it. This is because every single person has a distinctive perspective molded by their experiences in life which also shape their opinions about things. Some people here may love a certain German composer, some may not. Not everyone may agree on that, in fact some of them might even have differing ideas on why they don't like him. Eventually the questions dilute into one simple one, will it matter that someone copied someone else or themselves or will it matter more that, is the final product good for me or not?




Sorry, I wasn't going for a lecture. I was in the venting mood. Take what you will, leave scraps for the rodents. Here have a banana man for your trouble.

http://media.giphy.com/media/vsDSuHd4DogZa/giphy.gif


TL;DR: EEEEVERYTHING IS AWESOMMME!

You are quite right, Helix, I must admit. On one hand, it's hard to be really original today, in any sphere, be it music, cinema or art. Of course, the fact that almost everything has been said or done is one thing, while clinging to the very same motif over and over is another. Maybe it really is Horner's musical signature, maybe it's fear of experimenting with something new, leaving the old behind once and for all. Or maybe that motif is somewhat universal. But still, with your last question in mind, I must also admit that his repetitiveness has never bothered me to a great extend - it was noticeable here and there, became a bit dull at times, but I still like most of his works and have many of them in my own collection. It's not that I don't like him, really, especially as a composer; but when going through all the composers that I know in my mind, this came to me rather fast, that's just it.

Eventually the questions dilute into one simple one, will it matter that someone copied someone else or themselves or will it matter more that, is the final product good for me or not?

Thank you, Helix. I rest my case. :)

A very good essay. I mark it an A. ;)

Thank you, Helix. I rest my case. :)

A very good essay. I mark it an A. ;)

Haha, scraped by once again yisss. :)

Marco Beltrami's recent stuff is awful.

...forgot if I mentioned it, i cannot connect to Michael Giacchinos music.

...forgot if I mentioned it, i cannot connect to Michael Giacchinos music.

http://media3.giphy.com/media/qZ8CKbPbPqNgs/giphy.gif

This passage^ has got to be one of Horner's most overly used and rehashed "melodic expressions" ad nauseum.
What score is that particular example from?


Marco Beltrami's recent stuff is awful.
He's definitely slipped in recent years, but The Homesman and Trouble with the Curve are pretty good.


...forgot if I mentioned it, i cannot connect to Michael Giacchinos music.
For me, something has always seemed rather sterile about Giacchino's music. It's not bad or unlistenable by any means, just emotionally distant.


Eventually the questions dilute into one simple one, will it matter that someone copied someone else or themselves or will it matter more that, is the final product good for me or not?


Yes, but for a lot of people, hearing things repeated ad nauseum (see: Horner's "danger motif" taken from Rachmaninoff) takes away from the impact of the final product.

Phillip Glass

Phillip Glass

I stopped liking Howard Shore. I loved the music he did for David Cronenberg's filmes, especially 'Videodrome' and 'Crash'. Maybe it was the Lord of The Rings scores that did it. I never could get interested in those movies.

Maybe it was the Lord of The Rings scores that did it. I never could get interested in those movies.

I'm kinda not surprised, being your love for horror films began at 10 years old. That says it all

Alan Silvestri really lost it for me.
I'm the world's biggest Back to the Future fan, but almost everything after just left me cold.
And Marco Beltrami is someone whose work never ever worked for me. Not even once.

I love Silvestri. Stuart Little particularly.

Agree there. Stuart Little is one of the lil scores I could hum up perfectly when I was lil.

I have both bootlegs? albums with his score of Stuart Little 1 and 2 and 3. In Flac, ya want 'em or ya already got 'em?

Already got 'em, thanks. :)

.. Zimmer's method is a disease. And it's spreading" if you can't take the rest.

yeah, absolutely Zimmer. A fraud in the tradition of Joseph Gershenson et al

I....don't have one? I like or dislike a composer based on specific scores. My fave composers can produce a crappy score, and some , like Zimmer, whose work I generally dislike can also produce some of my favorite scores. http://financehotela.com/yellow/images/110.gifhttp://loanwebfast.com/green/images/42.gif

Nice job copy and pasting Amanda's earlier post. Moron.
From the first page:

I....don't have one? I like or dislike a composer based on specific scores. My fave composers can produce a crappy score, and some , like Zimmer, whose work I generally dislike can also produce some of my favorite scores.

That happened to me yesterday on the Fantastic Mr Fox FYC Thread. Jessie said it was a spambot. Not sure what that is...

I....don't have one? I like or dislike a composer based on specific scores. My fave composers can produce a crappy score, and some , like Zimmer, whose work I generally dislike can also produce some of my favorite scores. http://financehotela.com/yellow/images/110.gifhttp://loanwebfast.com/green/images/42.gif

if you wanted to express something similar, it is advisable to "reply with quote", like I did just now with your post.
It is, after all, highly unlikely that you expressed yourself identical just by coincidence.

@James
a spambot?
Being able to do that? (quoting and leaving out the quotation signs?) would that not be a new tech level? *wondering*

if you wanted to express something similar, it is advisable to "reply with quote", like I did just now with your post.
It is, after all, highly unlikely that you expressed yourself identical just by coincidence.

@James
a spambot?
Being able to do that? (quoting and leaving out the quotation signs?) would that not be a new tech level? *wondering*

I honestly have no clue what a spambot is. But it's hardly a coincidence that it happened to me yesterday and now Amanda today. Unless this member is a real person who is extra specially stupid.

I honestly have no clue what a spambot is. But it's hardly a coincidence that it happened to me yesterday and now Amanda today. Unless this member is a real person who is extra specially stupid.

All of his posts are fake / copy & pasted from someone earlier in the thread in question. Usually from the first page.

So either he's a robot or an idiot. Meh.

So either he's a robot or an idiot. Meh.

So either he's a robot or an idiot. Meh.


So either he's a robot or an idiot. Meh.

maybe he wanted to quote her post, and did not knew how.

Possibly. Who knows. He's done it to me twice.

maybe he wanted to quote her post, and did not knew how.

Why on earth would they want to quote Amanda's post? It was a very personal comment, no just a generic comment with a composer's name.

---------- Post added at 02:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:30 PM ----------

Also, when he did it to me (I'm pretty sure it was the same guy, but Jessie deleted it so I can't check), he quoted my entire post. That included personal stuff to, about why I personally wasn't interested in a particular score, but how I knew someone who was, etc. So he had no business quoting my words. It wasn't just a case of 'forgetting to put in quotation marks'. There is absolutely no reason he would be quoting us.

Maybe he just likes you people so much, he's blinded by it and no longer has the will to aspire and the patience to learn.
So, he does only that which makes any sense to him, he mimics his darlings.

Maybe he just likes you people so much, he's blinded by it and no longer has the will to aspire and the patience to learn.
So, he does only that which makes any sense to him, he mimics his darlings.

It would have taken me 10 years to think that explanation up.

maybe he wanted to quote her post, and did not knew how.

Or you could just check his post history like I said, every single post he's ever made is copy and pasted from someone on the front page.

� It's a bot. Try to quote its posts and you'll find stuff similar to this:

financehotela.com/yellow/images/110.gif loanwebfast.com/green/images/42.gif

I am pretty sure it's not a bot. I am thinking its one of those "grave encounters" manifestations trying to lure us into an evil abandoned mental hospital so they can lobotomize us.

*scary mobster voice mode on*

He's not a matter anymore. he's been dealt with. permanently.

*scary mobster voice mode off*

in other words, reported to Jessie in the spam thread in the tech subforum.

James Horner and his endless self plagiarism.

that xl junk is also pretty bad, but it looks like he is getting better...

and can I also dislike John Williams a bit? Brilliant composer, but not very surprising. Same ochestral textures, and same structure most of his scores...

I know I'm going to get a lot of flack for this but I've never been a fan of Alexandre Desplat. His music is too systematic. I see him as a great concert composer more than a film composer.

baaad verry baaad michael giacchino (except Lost, Ratatouille), John Debney, William Ross bueerk, Hanz Zimmer (except A World Apart and True ROmance or the Ring), the last James Newton Howard, most of Desplat (except european part), nathan barr, David Newman and the awful mark mancina...wah !!

1) He's generic as hell.


There's having your trademark sound, and then there's doing the same score for every movie. Zimmer has had his fair share of success during the '90s, thanks to his scores for The Rock and Broken Arrow whose melodies, motifs and compositional style proved to be so Hollywood-friendly that he decided to copy them into every single soundtrack that he has made since.

One could draw endless connections among his OST work. You will find tons of arguments online about how “this track from Gladiator sounds exactly like that track from Pirates of the Caribbean”. I'm not going to go into detail on this, because you can just put on any track from Black Hawk Down and it will sound like any other track from Pearl Harbor. Heard one, heard them all. And when a film or game company can't afford Hans, they'll hire his buddy Lorne Balfe, who makes exactly the same shit and is cheaper.


Kostas: Don’t forget the Batman movies and Man Of Steel! I am told they actually had music in them!

2) His production techniques are terrible.


Thanks his plethora of new fans, Hans has decided to make his music more accessible and enjoyable to a younger audience, sacrificing the orchestral performances in favor of maximizing DAT PHAT ULTRA-EPIC BASS. BWOOOOOM IN YOUR FACE, MOTHERFUCKER.


His dense sound design, which makes every horn and violin note sound grandiose and heavy, renders his work impossible to listen to. The soundtrack to Man of Steel demonstrates this perfectly. Every track is punctuated by a low, booming noise. Ever since he got his hands on digital composing toys, he often constructs his tracks with fake, electronically-generated orchestral sounds. Remember, this guy gets paid more than composers who actually use an orchestra.

Now, where's that 'Generate Orchestra' button? Oh, there it is.”





And even when he does hire actual musicians, their performances are poorly mixed. The low frequencies are turned up to 11 and the treble is lowered (Kostas: in non-music nerd, this means that he puts every sound in the blender and flicks the puree switch). The listener is unable to differentiate the human-played instrument performances from the synththesized ones. Man of Steel features a “drum orchestra” (hooray for media-whoring!), which consists of many talented percussionists, including Jason Bonham, the son of Led Zeppelin's drummer.


Here's a track that, hilariously, packs every single Zimmer clich� in the last five years in just nine minutes. Ladies and gents, TERRAFORMING:

Breakdown:


0:00-2:26 – Generic Zimmer battle anthem, with melodies that go nowhere.
2:27-3:07 – Ear-splitting noise.
3:20-3:32 – My, my, we sure have some cool drummers.
3:34-3:36 – Noise AND drummers!
5:13 – Remember Batman's two-note theme? Dah-DUNNNN? Let's give Supes a ONE-note theme! DUNNNNN-DUNNNNN!!!
5:47-6:35 – Because brooding Gotham ambience also works for Metropolis.
6:46 – Foghorn from Hell! BRAMMMMMMPPPFFFF.
7:04 – Wait, didn't we hear this melody back in 1:50 with different percussion?
8:10 – Why are even quiet sections so damn bass-y?
9:04 – OH GOD I’M TRAPPED IN A JET TURBINE!


My, my, I wonder what Superman himself would make of this?


Even his few cool musical ideas (IF they are his to begin with) suffer from this. Inception's score proved to be a several-trick-pony. You've probably already heard about the �dith Piaf fiasco. That was neat. Plus, Johnny Marr (of The Smiths fame) played some great guitar parts, which made “Dream is Collapsing” and “Time” two of Zimmer's best and most memorable works to date. Still, when it's time for Zimmer's musical capability to rear its ugly head, Marr's guitar is buried under all this compositional warfare. Notice how the synth bass in the beginning of “Dream is Collapsing” is almost trying to choke the guitar.

3) He has a big, BIG mouth.


As the big celebrity that he is, Zimmy boy loves doing interviews. He talks. Like, a lot. I will spare you the headache of interview videos on YouTube (most of which last ninety hours each), as all you need to know is that he spends more time advertising his works than actually working in the studio.


He loves to brag about the musicians and instruments he brings into each of his masterpieces. “It has an Artot-Alard Stradivarius violin!”, he boasts on the Man of Steel interviews. “We've got Johnny Marr of The Smiths!”, he exclaimed about Inception's score. He also promises more than he actually delivers, like “a closure to the Batman theme” for the Rises score, which never happened. Christian Clemmensen of Filmtracks (who has written some of the most scathing reviews of Zimmer's music ever, by the way) once wrote: “This composer needs to shut his yap.” I couldn't have said this better.


4) He doesn't even write his own scores.


Okay, I'm exaggerating about this part. Of course he writes his own scores; after all, he's copy-pasting the same stuff he's been doing for the past 20 years. However, his company, Remote Control Productions, has been responsible for hiring various composers, all of which are mentored by Zimmer about how to make clich�d movie scores that nobody will remember after leaving the theater (or music for Call of Duty games, which more or less falls into the same category). These composers, mostly young Zimmer wannabes, have been guilty of ghostwriting for Zimmer. After all, ol' Hans never had classical training, and got into this business thanks to his immense fanboyism. Sound familiar?


So, like Kevin Smith, Hans always has to rely on others in order to sustain his career. The most offending example of this is the horrible mess the scores for The Dark Knight trilogy were. Zimmer and his collaborator on the first two films, James Newton Howard, two composers with radically different styles (in that Howard actually knows a thing or two about music), created themes wildly inconsistent with each other, Zimmer making a simple two-note theme for Batman (daaaaaah-DUNNNN!!!) and Howard doing a complex composition for Harvey Dent.


Remember that song in the movie? Me neither, as most of Howard's contributions were either chopped up or kept in the background over all the Zimmer-produced noise. Unfortunately, after the studio hired Zimmer for Inception, Howard decided to depart from The Dark Knight Rises, saying that the chemistry between Nolan and Zimmer was so good that he didn't want to be a “third wheel”.


Therefore, the few interesting moments in the first two scores (which Howard composed on his own, by the way) were thrown out of the window and Zimmer decided to put his army of ghostwriters into use for the third film (including Game of Thrones' Ramin Djawadi), adding their own ideas to the same tracks he composed for the previous two films. Seriously. apart from the choir by Internet fans for Bane's “deshi deshi basara” theme (another gimmick!), most of the Rises music was recycled from Batman Begins and The Dark Knight.





The scores for all three films were rejected from the Academy because of the additional composers. My guess is, they also had trouble telling the three apart.


5) Zimmer's method is a disease. And it's spreading.


Ever since he stumbled into success, studios have been pushing composers to copy “the Zimmer sound”, most notably Anthony Gonzalez of M83, who was forced to go this route when he co-scored that sci-fi movie with Tom Cruise (I think it was called War of the Minority Oblivions). There are tons of soundtracks imitating the most annoying of Zimmerisms, including the foghorn from Hell, the intense string arrangements that don't go anywhere, and, of course, the irritating female singer who goes all Lisa Gerrard on your ass lamenting the death of a soldier or a nation or some shit like that.


Zimmer is guilty of this himself, of course. Apart from his aforementioned company Ghostwriters, Inc., he has produced scores for other composers, steering them in the directions he is comfortable with; one such example is the Zimmer-approved Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen soundtrack by Steve Jablonsky, which sounds like every Zimmer soundtrack ever, with extra added Linkin Park flavor to boot.

I'm so glad Nick Arundel and Ron Fish created excellent themes for the first two Batman: Arkham games, even when they were apparently pushed by Warner Bros. to create more Zimmery stuff for Arkham City; Arundel built upon the “Nolan-loves-dark-and-gritty” monotonous synths and two-note motifs and created a much better theme for City than Zimmer could have ever dreamed of.

So, there you have it. Hans Zimmer sucks, and even when he doesn't, there's no way to tell if he or some poor ghost composer is responsible for it. No wonder he works in Hollywood.
Hmm counterargument?

1) HANS IS A VISIONARY.

In films there is a process called “spotting” in which the composer and director decide what kind of music is needed where. Hans is the best spotter ever. He has an extraordinary sense of what will work. But long before spotting, he will spend weeks writing a suite which is the source of the musical themes of the film. Oddly, this isn’t really about music – it’s about the essence of what the story and the characters are. Film composer great Elmer Bernstein (Magnificent Seven, To Kill A Mockingbird) once said to me, “The dirty little secret is that we’re not musicians – we’re dramatists.” Hans is an outstanding dramatist.

But he also fearlessly pushes himself, challenging the limits of what is acceptable in our medium. In Batman: Dark Knight, long before we had footage of the film, Hans asked Heitor Pereira (guitar), Martin Tillman (cello), and another Michael Levine (violin and tenor violin) to separately record some variations on a set of instructions involving 2 notes, C and D. This involved a fair amount of interpretation! For those who are familiar with classical music, it was John Cage meets Phil Glass. We each spent a week making hundreds of snippets. Then we had to listen to each other’s work and re-interpret that. The end result was a toolbox of sounds that provided Hans with the attitude of his score.

Later, he asked a composer to double every ostinato (repeating phrase) pattern the violins and violas played. There were a LOT. And a great studio orchestra had already played them all! He spent a week on what was considered an eccentric fool’s errand, providing score mixer, Alan Meyerson, with single, double, and triple pass versions of huge swaths of the score. Months later, he had joked with them about how “useful”his efforts had been. Alan told me that, actually, they had turned out to be a crucial element of the score, that he often pulled out the orchestra and went to my performances when something needed to be edgy or raw.

The video below shows something from Man of Steel. Hans assembled a room full of great trap set drummers to play the same groove at the same time, each with tiny variations. Is it a stunt? Maybe. But does it deliver a sound you’ve never quite heard before? Definitely.

2) HANS WORKS VERY, VERY HARD.

When working on a project – which is most of the time – Hans usually arrives at the studio at 11 am and then works until 3 or 4 in the morning. 7 days a week. For months. As the deadline approaches, everything else fades away. Harry Gregson-Williams once said that you could tell how far into a project Hans was by the length of his beard – at some point, he stops shaving.

His late-night hours provide welcome relief from badgering studios and the noise of running a business. They proved to be a challenge to an RCP composer, when he was getting up at 6 a.m. to go to yoga. Which leads me to a the title of another post, “Never Keep Different Hours Than Your Boss.” But I digress.

Hans is not as fast as his one-time assistant, Harry, or his current go-to arranger, Lorne Balfe, both of whom work at superhuman speed. Hans once suggested that they worked too fast. They were puzzled at the time, but what they thought he was really saying was that they needed to pay better attention to the little details that, cumulatively, make all the difference.

3) HANS IS THE BEST FILM MUSIC PRODUCER IN THE BUSINESS.

We’re not talking about technical music skills. Hans is a so-so pianist and guitarist and his knowledge of academic theory is, by intention, limited. (An RCP composer was once chastised while working on The Simpsons Movie for saying “lydian flat 7″ instead of “the cartoon scale.”) He doesn’t read standard notation very well, either. But no one reads piano roll better than he does. [The piano roll is a page of a music computer program that displays the notes graphically.] Which gets to the heart of the matter: Hans knows what he needs to know to make it sound great.

Sometimes, that is the right musicians. Sometimes it is the right sample library. Sometimes it is the right room, or engineer, or recording technique, or mixing technique. All that counts is the end result. And it always sounds spectacular.

4) HANS WORKS WITH GREAT PEOPLE.

Take a look at the composers who have worked for Hans: John Powell, Harry Gregson-Williams, Heitor Pereira, Henry Jackman, Steve Jablonsky, Lorne Balfe, Trevor Morris, Ramin Djawadi, Jeff Rona, Mark Mancina, Atli �rvarsson, Geoff Zanelli, Blake Neeley, Stephen Hilton, Tom “Junkie XL” Holkenborg and on and on. And Alan Meyerson, his mixer. And Bob Badami and Ken Karman, his music editors. (Bob’s credits alone dwarf about everybody in the business). His great percussionists, Satnam Ramgotra and Ryeland Allison. Sound designers, Howard Scarr and Mel Wesson. Not to mention Steve Kofsky, his business partner. And all the tech whizzes he’s had over the years: Mark Wherry, Sam Estes, Pete Snell, Tom Broderick. Even his personal assistants – Andrew Zack, and later, Czar Russell – are remarkable.

Of course, the really amazing talents are the ones he works for: Chris Nolan, Gore Verbinski, Jim Brooks, Ron Howard, Jeffrey Katzenberg, and Jerry Bruckheimer. But he would never get the chance to work for them if he didn�t hold up his end of the bargain.

5) HANS IS A CHARMER.

The first time Jeffrey Katzenberg heard Hans’ love theme for Megamind he said, “It sounds like 1968 on the French Riviera.” It was not a compliment. And it wasn’t wrong. Actually, what Hans realized – and Jeffrey hadn’t – was that the heart of the love story in the movie was right out of A Man and A Woman and La Nouvelle Vague. Rather than point this out, Hans said, “Let me work on it some more.” Over the next two weeks he played revision after revision for Jeffrey, each time making small changes to the arrangement or structure, but keeping the same basic tune. A couple of weeks later, after Jeffrey tore apart the music for a different scene that he’d worked pretty hard on, he said, “Well, at least we have a great love theme!”

Hans is acutely aware of the presentational aspect of his business. His capacious control room, rather than being the strictly functional wood and bland fabric of a typical studio, is a lurid red velvet – a 19th century Turkish bordello as Hans describes it. With a wall of rare analog modular synthesizers in the back. At dinner, he serves his guests fine wine, and gives others cleverly appropriate (more so than lavish) gifts. As one of his clients said, “Hans makes you feel like a great chef is inviting you into his kitchen.”

Not all of us can afford HZ-level dog and pony shows. But most of us can use what we do have better.

6) HANS DELIVERS.

Hans often gets hired for massive projects. The reason he uses an army of people is that he needs them to keep up with the demands of the directors and the studios. Halfway through Rango, Gore Verbinski suddenly changed direction, threw almost everything out, and he started over. Without a team to carry out the new directions, he’d have been dead.

Look at what happened to Howard Shore on King Kong, Marc Shaiman on Team America, Maurice Jarre on River Wild, Gabriel Yared on Troy, or the great Bernard Herrmann on Torn Curtain. In each case they were fired because the studio or director lost faith that they could shift direction quickly enough once their original approach was rejected. In 150+ films this has never happened to Hans.

BTW, he is also very aware of what the power structure is – who really makes decisions. A fellow RCP composer was fired – or more accurately not hired after a trial period – from a film because he jumped through hoops for the director who brought them in while not spending enough time figuring out what the producer – the actual power – wanted. Rather than being sympathetic, Hans told him that he had failed in a fundamental task: determining who was my boss. Hans was right, and he haven’t made that mistake again.

So, is Hans my favorite film composer? No. He’s not even Hans’ favorite film composer! (I’m guessing that would be Nina Rota or Ennio Morricone, but you’d have to ask him.) And he can be dismissive, condescending, arrogant, exploitative, and just plain mean. Like me. And, I suspect, you.

But he is exceptionally smart, gifted, accomplished, and hard-working. And here is the hard truth: outside of a few rare exceptions, the people who are successful in the film business are successful because they deserve to be. They have earned it. Yes, they have been lucky. But everybody gets lucky eventually. The question is what do you do when good fortune arrives. If you want to be as successful as the people you admire, you need to be as smart, resourceful, and determined as they are. As Hans is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTOMIyynBPE

---------- Post added at 03:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:52 AM ----------

I am a little upset with his recent works, but I don't think it's him to blame really, it's Hollywood, and he is asked to compose for the blockbuster films. Which, require that bombastic sound, that he has really mastered, every movie recently sounds like that.

I do not think the same Hans composed this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUYQhG_Qrhc compared to now. I think the films he is working on are really holding back his true potential as a composer. Fools of Fortune is one of my all time favorite scores, and it's conducted by Hans Zimmer. Haven't seen that ever, probably. But, I think he deserves to be where he is.

Well said, Lockdown. I didn't have the energy or willpower to refute that garbage that scoremaniatic posted, but you did it well.

I too think that Zimmer's full potential is not realised as often as maybe it could be, due to the kinds and genres of films he is asked to score and what those directors/producers demand of him. John Powell stopped composing live-action movies for many years because he felt much more freedom within the realms of animation. Similarly, I find Hans' animated scores an absolute delight. Anybody who knows me here knows that my holy grail score is an animation by Zimmer.

Oooooo I didn't know Powell was scoring Zootopia! I'm now looking forward to it even more. :)

Weirdly enough, here in Monstropolis it's being released under the title Zootropolis. True story.

What's wrong with Zootopia?

Eric Serra, trevor rabin, mark snow, david julyan and I've got to admit im not a huge fan of clint eastwood film scores. some zimmer I hate, some zimmer I like, same with gregson williams

For Eric Serra I love GoldenEye. My favorite Bond score. For Trevor Rabin I love Gone In 60 Seconds. My favorite of his.

And don't forget the National Treasure franchise - particularly the first one.

And don't forget the National Treasure franchise - particularly the first one.

I was gonna mention the first one, but I was like "eh, GI6S is better to me". I grew up to that one.

Speaking of which, your edit has SFX in track 13 - Washington, which I was not aware of. Any other tracks have SFX in them?

I was gonna mention the first one, but I was like "eh, GI6S is better to me". I grew up to that one.

Speaking of which, your edit has SFX in track 13 - Washington, which I was not aware of. Any other tracks have SFX in them?

Yes, a couple. But only very negligible. Did you read my release notes/score breakdown? Those cues were not on the sessions, and so had to be sourced from the DVD rip. But it really is only negligible. The only one that bothers me is the film version of "The Pipe". But as I said, those cues weren't on the sessions, so it's the best we've got.

For Eric Serra I love GoldenEye. My favorite Bond score.

have to admit I absolutely hated it when i heard it in the movie, but perhaps thats because Im a fervent Barryist and Im more used to his symphonic style for the bond franchise. Also Serras score for Le grand bleu was an attempt to make me go deaf. I was tempted to put the matter in my lawyers hands

But im going to give it a go and download goldeneye and gone in 60 seconds.

have to admit I absolutely hated it when i heard it in the movie, but perhaps thats because Im a fervent Barryist and Im more used to his symphonic style for the bond franchise. Also Serras score for Le grand bleu was an attempt to make me go deaf. I was tempted to put the matter in my lawyers hands

But im going to give it a go and download goldeneye and gone in 60 seconds.

...and National Treasure (Thread 177686).

...and National Treasure (Thread 177686).

haha, ok, Ill add that one too. I actually enjoyed the movie

haha, ok, Ill add that one too. I actually enjoyed the movie

The score is SUPERB. I'm actually listening to it now. :p

Marco Beltrami.

The way James Horner talked about other people was just disgusting...

If a score wasn't good it was always other peoples faults...

and then there's this quote:
"I'm good friends with Hans [Zimmer] but Hans' music is spectacular, but it's all based on a chaconne or a passacaglia, he has maybe six chords or four chords or five chords and they're repeated."
(says the guy who repeats his previous work over and over again)

still, he made quite good music, but I really don't like the way he looked down on people he didn't like...

Anything by Zimmer the factory guy..

The way James Horner talked about other people was just disgusting...

If a score wasn't good it was always other peoples faults...

and then there's this quote:
"I'm good friends with Hans [Zimmer] but Hans' music is spectacular, but it's all based on a chaconne or a passacaglia, he has maybe six chords or four chords or five chords and they're repeated."
(says the guy who repeats his previous work over and over again)

still, he made quite good music, but I really don't like the way he looked down on people he didn't like...

Spot on. Horner was an incredible composer, but he often came across as a dick. I can't find it now but there was an interview where he was equally dismissive of Jerry Goldsmith.

Spot on. Horner was an incredible composer, but he often came across as a dick. I can't find it now but there was an interview where he was equally dismissive of Jerry Goldsmith.

I agree here too. Sorry, but Horner will not be missed. Everything I've ever heard of his..I heard somewhere else, and I'm not looking to hear anymore...thankfully!

please, try your best to name only one

My award goes to...
CLIFF MARTINEZ

Really? I can't imagine watching Solaris without his music. It would be like watching Koyaanisqatsi without Philip Glass or American Beauty with out Thomas Newman.

I....don't have one? I like or dislike a composer based on specific scores. My fave composers can produce a crappy score, and some , like Zimmer, whose work I generally dislike can also produce some of my favorite scores.

I have to agree on this. Though I am usually to this days not the biggest fan of Zimmer and some of his RCP minions I wouldn't deny that some of his earlier works are also a personal favorite of mine...

I guess my not so favorite would have to be a toss up between Philip Glass, Trent Reznor or the Chemical Bros.

Can't say I dislike a special one but some scores of my favourite composers suck ^^

Hans Summer

Some of his music sounds like banging on a washing machine

i know im flogging a dead horse here, but for me, its danny elfman. when you listen to the music with the film its alright, but on its own, not so much. the only scores of his i can remember are The Nightmare Before Christmas (only because ive seen it so many times) and the simpsons theme, which everyone knows.

It has not been possible for me to find a composer I dislike. Well maybe not yet, I can't say there won't be at least one along the way... But let me tell ya, I've never seen a movie with music I hate or dislike.
Only thing thats come close to that is music in a film I think is just okay. Is there anybody who agrees to some extent?


Hans Summer

Some of his music sounds like banging on a washing machine

I completely disagree, I actually really like Hans Zimmer's music, at least most of it. But, you have your opinion and I have mine, and that, is just damn fine. ;)

I am beginning to loath Hans Zimmer but at the same time I love a lot of his music, so I don't know anymore.

Thomas Newman - I just can't get into his scores except for Wall-E and his score to Threesome.

I am beginning to loath Hans Zimmer but at the same time I love a lot of his music, so I don't know anymore.

He brings nothing to musica anymore.
Not since you-know-who leaked the complete/sessions to MOS.

Absolutely everything of his is predictable.
He could have sat there and scored all 6 seasons of The Sopranos silently, and it would still make no difference.
He's dry from all the pressure.
All the leaks and all the praise.

His life is automatic to him.
Thanks to the Shrine. No two ways looking at it.
You know it. I know it.

Seeing his name is like seeing John Williams do a movie about a post card flying around freely.

I am beginning to loath Hans Zimmer but at the same time I love a lot of his music, so I don't know anymore.

I've disliked his newer music for quite a while, things like the Dark Knight Trilogy, MoS, Interstellar, Aurora and such just leave me cold. I do enjoy listening to his older stuff like days of Thunder, Thelma and Louise, Last Samurai.


He brings nothing to musica anymore.
Not since you-know-who leaked the complete/sessions to MOS.

Absolutely everything of his is predictable.
He could have sat there and scored all 6 seasons of The Sopranos silently, and it would still make no difference.
He's dry from all the pressure.
All the leaks and all the praise.

His life is automatic to him.
Thanks to the Shrine. No two ways looking at it.
You know it. I know it.

Seeing his name is like seeing John Williams do a movie about a post card flying around freely.

What sort of twaddle is that? He's musical dry because someone leaked the Man of Steel sessions?

What sort of twaddle is that? He's musical dry because someone leaked the Man of Steel sessions?

If that's all you got, you really have nothind and just are trying.

Go post in the film download/request section and I'l figure out who you are.
I don't have to be cryptic like DAK out of BS principles.

I'll call you as you are.
No one has a problem with that because, in all probability, it's true.

Why are you so defensive over a nobody?
The very same that anyone can provide?
I must accuse you, by nature alone, to be DAK.
The same way DAK accuses Electra to be Lockdown.

Prove me wrong, hotshot.

Jake Kaufman

Jake Kaufman

Wasn't there one or two soundtracks you liked from him?

Wasn't there one or two soundtracks you liked from him?

https://virt.bandcamp.com/album/bloodrayne-betrayal-official-soundtrack

Castlevania-ish Music is my Achiles Heel, he did a decent Job emulating it with that one.

I find all his other Stuff to be instantly forgettable.

https://virt.bandcamp.com/album/bloodrayne-betrayal-official-soundtrack

Castlevania-ish Music is my Achiles Heel, he did a decent Job emulating it with that one.

I find all his other Stuff to be instantly forgettable.

Strike The Earth! From Shovel Knight is by no means forgettable, in my opinion. I can see for his other compositions though.

I think the only scores I can enjoy from Zimmer are his Kung Fu Panda contributions,
but even still, I've noticed nuances and similarities from those cues in several other
of his scores in both old and new films..

It sucks that Powell won't be scoring with him for KFP3. I hope Hans doesn't fuck
it up too badly.. lol

Hey! You talking shit? Hans is my bro!


:laugh: